Author Topic: The Presidential Debatabacle  (Read 2144 times)

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BlueCross

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The Presidential Debatabacle
« on: October 10, 2016, 07:14:34 PM »
Kudos to the Village for not bringing this up earlier.

But I just can't help myself.

It's not so much that I am a Hillary supporter but instead that I find it appalling than anyone could support Trump.  I can understand not supporting Hillary; I'm fine with that. 

But there don't seem to be enough disparaging words to describe Trump's behavior.   The ability to ignore, overlook or deflect his incredible flaws by his supporters is...  well... unbelievable.

Ugh...  ugh... ugh...
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Chucara

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 09:16:40 PM »
I had this discussion with four New Yorkers I met on a bar in Budapest two weeks ago. Three of them were Trump supporters, one Hillary. All of them were there to teach US Politics.

The Trump supporters were mainly voted for him becuase they thought Hillary was a criminal (Haiti, the e-mails, etc.). But it also turns out that they had all voted republican as far back as they had been able to vote.

As an outsider, I can't imagine any scenario where out of 300+ million people, these are the two you wind up with.

BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 05:14:52 AM »
Well, I'll come to Hillary's defense a bit.  I don't believe she has engaged in criminal activities; every time they are investigated, nothing comes of it other than a 'stern warnng' once.   Most of the actions against her have been deemed unfounded.  The Republican mantra of 'Crooked Hillary' has been repeated enough times that it apparently has significant traction.

Every time I read something about her (Clinton Foundation, emails, Benghazi, etc) that seems exceptionally damaging, I do a serious amount of research on it.

And virtually every time it is smoke and mirrors; the Republicans have a smear campaign against her matched only by the one they had against Obama.

The worst I could find about her was that she made some errors in judgement (even though she had recommendations from Colin Powell) that resulted in some lower classified emails that COULD (but didn't) have some security ramifications.  I've often wondered about her IT people, and the little I found out was not encouraging.  In fact, one of them was called to some Congressional hearing and took the fifth.

But even if you don't buy into those arguments, then just listen only to the comments by the candidates themselves.   The only way (in my opinion) you could support Trump then is because of an intense (and unfounded) hatred of either Hillary or the Democrats



Sidebar on Classified Documents:
For years, I held a Top Secret clearance; in fact, even the level of clearance I had was classified.  One of the stranger side-effects of that clearance was that I was unable to fly over Communist Countries for seven years after I was no longer in a position that required that clearance.  And in all my years in the military and as a private contractor, I NEVER ONCE saw a document tagged with the letter 'C' that indicated it was Confidential; classified documents that I saw were always clearly labeled "CONFIDENTIAL" (the lowest level), "SECRET" or "TOP SECRET".  This whole issue of her not knowing that the 'C' tag on some emails meant "CONFIDENTIAL" is completely understandable to me and only a very minor breach of security.

OK, yeh, I guess I am a Hillary supporter.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 05:20:17 AM by BlueCross »
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Hoopy Frood

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 05:26:30 AM »
I had this discussion with four New Yorkers I met on a bar in Budapest two weeks ago. Three of them were Trump supporters, one Hillary. All of them were there to teach US Politics.

The Trump supporters were mainly voted for him becuase they thought Hillary was a criminal (Haiti, the e-mails, etc.). But it also turns out that they had all voted republican as far back as they had been able to vote.

As an outsider, I can't imagine any scenario where out of 300+ million people, these are the two you wind up with.

It's what you get when you have a "first past the post" electoral system and the major two parties control the rules for the debates, thereby pretty much shutting out all third parties. (Not that the two most prominent third parties put up candidates that were particularly compelling in their own right. About the only thing that can be said about them is that neither one is Trump or Hillary.)

This was the year for the Green Party or the Libertarian party to put up a candidate who could really shine (though, the 15% in polls to be able to debate thing is part of the reason third parties struggle). But the Green party has an anti-vaccination medical doctor. (Seriously, WTF?) And she believes Wi-Fi is a threat to children's health. (Seriously, WTF?) And the Libertarians have a guy who doesn't know what Aleppo is, and after screwing that up in one interview, was stumped in a second interview by a reporter asking him who his favorite foreign leader was, mainly because he didn't know any of their names. The Aleppo gaffe might have been excusable since everyone has a brain fart here and there. But you'd think the guy would have at least tried to bone-up on foreign policy for his next interview, but nope.

The only candidate even remotely qualified to be president is Hillary. And that's a sad state of affairs. But the idea that anyone can get elected POTUS is a joke. It takes a lot of money and a lot of connections just to be in the running.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

Hoopy Frood

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2016, 05:29:03 AM »
And in all my years in the military and as a private contractor, I NEVER ONCE saw a document tagged with the letter 'C' that indicated it was Confidential; classified documents that I saw were always clearly labeled "CONFIDENTIAL" (the lowest level), "SECRET" or "TOP SECRET". 

Ditto. Though I was always working for a contractor when I had my clearance.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2016, 05:35:33 AM »
This was the year for the Green Party or the Libertarian party to put up a candidate who could really shine

I have mixed feelings about 3rd (and 4th) party candidates.  Full Disclosure: I am a member of the Green Party.  But I don't like those names on the ballot.  They will never garner enough votes (in our current two party system) to win, and all they do is suck votes from the Democrats (or most of the votes, anyway).

I also agree that the Green and Libertarian party candidates are exceptionally weak this year; I would never vote for either of them.
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2016, 05:40:58 AM »
And to keep fanning the anti-Trump flames, here is an article about the 2nd debate:

NY Times Article



"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Dessert Ranger

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 05:50:46 PM »
But the Green party has an anti-vaccination medical doctor. (Seriously, WTF?) And she believes Wi-Fi is a threat to children's health. (Seriously, WTF?)

I heard these weren't true. I think I saw on her website addressing this saying it was false.
But what do I know? I survive on a steady diet of tangerines.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 06:00:29 AM by Hoopy Frood »
But it'll help

BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 06:44:38 PM »
"Will my fear of tangerines compel the dead midget in my closet to spring back to life and crap on my bed?"

Asked on Yahoo.

And answered:
"Only if the pomogranite in your drawer speaks in aremaic."

"Only if you don't pat the brown duck at the top of the hill."

"What is it with you and midgets? Don't you know midgets never die! And yes, the tangerines will compel it to strike back with a vengeance! Destroy all citrus fruits, immediately!"
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

The Hanged Man

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 09:37:52 PM »
I hated Trump before it was cool for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Forbes_(farmer)
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BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 09:55:14 PM »
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Hoopy Frood

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 03:20:45 AM »
Oh, and anyone who faults a criminal defense attorney for reducing the penalty their client receives or getting an acquittal has no business being the head of the Executive Branch of the United States of America.

John Adams is rolling over in his fucking grave right now.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 03:41:40 AM »
Oh, and anyone who faults a criminal defense attorney for reducing the penalty their client receives or getting an acquittal has no business being the head of the Executive Branch of the United States of America.

John Adams is rolling over in his fucking grave right now.

Where's the 'like' button?
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Sandru

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2016, 04:29:11 PM »
I don't really know what I'm going to do, I can't stand any of the candidates. Trump lacks tact and has always been a bigot and pretty racist, can't see that anyone believes he genuinely cares about anything but making money. His (in)ability to handle foreign policy should scare everyone, imagine him trying to bluster his way through a UN meeting or visiting foreign dignitaries.  Not big on many of his stances either, be it immigration of abortion. Trump is like if the internet comment section of youtube was given a human body, he's the result.

Hillary is just as unconscionable. It's true that both have the PR machines working against them pretty heavily, some of it's pretty extreme. That said, while I don't agree with the "jail her!" cries, I find that she's so untrustworthy and willing to flip flop at the drop of a hat just to get a vote. She basically lied about the emails and even the FBI said she was "extremely careless" which, along with the Clintons overall history, doesn't engender feelings that she'll handle things well as President. Hell, anyone I know probably would have lost their security clearance instead of having a slap on the wrist for sending/receiving work emails (especially classified ones, whether she realized it or not,) after being counseled that it wasn't a good idea. I know she isn't the only one to do it but that doesn't really make anything better. Nevermind if the leaks (which I still consider dubious, so trying to not lend them too much credence yet,) about her talks with wall street are actually true.

That said, it's a bit unfair that people attack her based on Bill's actions. I think most of that is fear of him having any sort of sway when she's in office, or a lack of judgement if many of the allegations are true.
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TK

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2016, 10:10:35 PM »
I'm at once comforted and horrified that I have absolutely no say in what I fear might be a train crash on a national scale.

Trump and his golf course are responsible for destroying the bio diversity and forcing people from their homes on the Aberdeen coastline, I may be glad to be out of there but it used to be one of my favourite places up that way. I hate to think about what would come out of his administration.

Not that our current givernmental parody is any better.