Author Topic: The Presidential Debatabacle  (Read 1669 times)

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BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2016, 11:02:12 PM »
Hillary is just as unconscionable...

I'm gonna have to be a Hillary fan-boy for a few moments here.
First, there are HUGE differences in levels of classified material.  Losing track or being careless with Confidential material is nothing like doing the same with Top Secret material.  A slap on the wrist is generally what happens with a first offense with low-level security breaches.  Also note that very few classification prosecutions are brought to court UNLESS the government can prove malice and/or intent.

Second, she was warned AFTER the fact, not before.  The worst thing (in my view) is she just took some bad advice.

I seriously suggest to anyone who is anti-Hillary to do multi-researches on any issue you believe she has a serious problem with (obviously you wouldn't go to Rush Limbaugh et. al. for sources but you don't need to go to her camp as well).  I have yet find any substantive evidence against her that is seriously damning.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 11:11:11 PM by BlueCross »
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
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AcdQueen89

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2016, 01:02:16 AM »
The book A Deriliction of Duty paints a believable picture of Hillary in my mind. It's not a very flattering picture but shows that she knows the system inside and out and will not hesitate to use it.

Trump on the other hand.... I feel this parliament hearing should speak for itself but apparently doesn't. When one of our allies has to even think about discussing barring a presidential hopeful from the country, what does that say about his foreign policy?

As much as I want anyone rather than Hillary because of who she seems to be as a person, she might be the right person for the job (at least of the options). We know she knows the system and as almighty Oprah said - I don't have to have her over for dinner. I just desperately wish I had another realistic option.
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BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2016, 03:33:56 AM »
My knee-jerk reaction on reading about Patterson and his book was that he was just another right-wing wacko.  I tried to do a more in-depth research on him (and his book) but could find surprisingly little other than what you would expect to find on right-wing wacko sites.

A lot of his stuff has been debunked; I found this quote "his brief book does not contain much more than a collection of mostly unsubstantiated anecdotes and rumors aiming to denigrate the Clintons".  On the same page, I also found this interesting quote "Shelton’s sober account now substantiates at least one story in Patterson’s book" which has a strong implication that people have to dig pretty deep to find any stuff that can be verified.

It seems that if Patterson's book was accurate and verifiable, you would find a lot of it being quoted by the Trump propaganda machine.  Since it isn't, I surmise that they are worried about the backlash from quoting (not a valid argument by me here, but still, it is a talking point).

Anyway, until I kind some convincing arguments elsewhere, I will lump Patterson into the Rush Limbaugh deplorables.
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

AcdQueen89

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2016, 10:23:43 AM »
I was thinking more of the portrayal of the Clintons as people not necessarily as politicians. History is already telling us what to think of the 90's. Hillary was only mentioned in a few chapters of the book, the focus was more on complaining about Bill.

The book is strongly anecdotal but it confirms stuff that is easily seen. Hillary is a PR machine and I'm not sure there is any documented occurrence of her acting like an actual person rather than (excuse the term) a Kardashian. At face value she is a facade but she does have a strong history proving she knows what she's talking about.
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BlueCross

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2016, 03:29:33 AM »
Fair enough.
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

AcdQueen89

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 09:26:12 AM »
Fuck
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TK

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 04:18:21 PM »
Fuck indeed.

Desert Ranger

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 05:31:08 AM »
Fuuuuuuck
Let them come! Wave upon traitorous wave will crash against the Enclave's walls! The Brotherhood of Steel will fail! All those who oppose the Enclave will fail! I am President John Henry Eden, and this is my pledge -- no one, NO ONE will take this great nation away from me! God bless the Enclave! God bless America!

KMD

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 01:19:04 PM »
America, Fuck Yeah
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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2017, 02:28:56 AM »
I'd say plenty of reasons to not like Hillary, but then I'd have to get into specifics about which Hillary
the one that's always been a moderate,
or
 the one that's always been a progressive

the one that gives s speech to Verizon execs
or
the one that goes down to the street with Verizon workers on strike for a photo op

When her stance depends on audience, it's hard to figure out what she actually supports. But when the DNC lifted Obama's ban on contributions from lobbyists, the DNC used state and local Democratic parties to launder money for her campaign, it proved just how strong her Wall Street ties are; well that and the board meeting she had with her "investors"/donors to explain why she lost. Later on, she would accept full responsibility for her loss, and then in the same breath, blame Comey. Despite all of her flaws, despite the obvious electioneering and the obvious collusion, the only reason she lost is because she alienated voters. She alienated them with things she said. She alienated them with her million dollar troll brigade. She alienated them with her fake news stories being pushed by David Brock and Blue Nation Review. And then her loyal followers followed her example attacking anyone that was not on board with her 100%.

The DNC has not denied collusion with the Clinton campaign in the current lawsuit against them, instead they insisted there was no reason for impartiality because they are a private organization, and even that they can pick their own candidate regardless of tax payer funded primaries. Of course it helped to have people from her earlier campaign now in key positions within the DNC for this campaign.

Now as far as any criminal negligence on her part regarding her server and the emails, I think you're aware that in fact during the Congressional hearing with Comey (available on C-Span's website) he did admit there was criminal negligence on her part. In fact, whether you hate her or are a diehard fan, you really should actually watch the video. Yes, it's long and boring, and Democrats try to build up Comey like they're trying to score a date with him. But just listen to his answers when they actually ask him questions.

And keep in mind Hillary was not just some janitor at a school, she was the Secretary of State, a position that required handling classified information on a daily basis. Her server was without a valid security certificate for 3 months. And we all know about Paul Combetta asking about how to edit the email database during the FBI's investigation, a move that would be considered tampering with evidence/ destruction of evidence. He also posted some details about the server that should never have been posted, and then went back and started deleting these posts during the congressional hearing.

The legality of the server itself hasn't come up as much as the question behind the reasoning for it. It's been shown that Sate Department and the Clinton foundation had enough overlap in business to raise several red flags. In fact, even the Washington Post, where Podesta is now a columnist, wrote a piece on it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/emails-reveal-how-foundation-donors-got-access-to-clinton-and-her-close-aides-at-state-dept/2016/08/22/345b5200-6882-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html?utm_term=.47d76e1128ab

Thank god she wants to lead the #McResistance now. Not sure what she's resisting, except responsibility for her own actions. But at least she gets to handle someone else's money again.

meuforce

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2017, 06:02:04 AM »
Why don't we overthrow every world's government and replace it with soviet llamas, that would be better than any candidate of any nation to date.
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KMD

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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2017, 08:48:57 AM »

Later on, she would accept full responsibility for her loss, and then in the same breath, blame Comey.
I fucking saw that too! And I about lost my shit when she said "If the election had been held on October 27, I'd be your president" The arrogance of that fucking woman! Even if Comey had influenced enough people past the tipping point to cost her the election, theres no way to fucking prove things would be different. She's not some inter-dimensional time traveler. Its just a rather pathetic coping mechanism to justify what she was overly confident would happen, but didn't.

 My dad always used to say "don't use shoulda/coulda/woulda and just accept the results of your actions". Instead of admitting "Our message wasn't very good, and my campaign focused too narrowly on population centers. Trump obviously had more support across broader areas." its blaming Russia, Comey, and now even the DNC. Its pretty scary, and i'm thankful things happened the way they did. I earnestly think the election results may have been influenced by God, and what was meant to happen did.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 08:50:28 AM by KMD »
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Re: The Presidential Debatabacle
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2017, 04:07:40 AM »
Meh.

Really, I blame the whole thing on the third parties. This was arguably the first election where they could have actually won, thus establishing themselves as relevant. But the Greens and the Libertarians put up horrible candidates. Seriously. If I were the head of the Green party I would have have begged Ralph Nader (who isn't actually a Green, but ran for them previously) to run again. He certainly would have been better than any of the other choices. And the Libertarians should have had their Veep be running as for Pres, and gotten someone with a clue to run as Veep.

The two major parties put up very unlikable candidates. It was a golden chance for the other parties. But they shat the bed.

Do I think Hillary would have been better than Trump. Yep! Do I think she was a particularly good candidate? Nope! But I sure as Hell wasn't voting for anyone else. And that's really a sad statement for someone who prides himself on usually voting for third parties. I just couldn't do it this time, even though the major party candidate I voted for was probably worse than any of the other major party candidates I could have voted for in other elections/positions.
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