Author Topic: R.I.P The United Kingdom...  (Read 6154 times)

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The Hanged Man

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R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« on: June 25, 2016, 10:53:29 PM »
We hardly knew ye...  :'(
The sun beyond the mountain glows
The yellow river seaward flows
You can enjoy a grander sight
By climbing to a greater height

I have run out of places to climb. I will abandon this body and take to the air. We will leave twin vapor trails in the air, white lines etched into these rocks. I am the aerial. In my passing, I will send news to each and every star.

Mrs Brown says: 'Hapiness is an effect, not a goal.'

Charlie is yelling @barit0wned
PC: A spider laid eggs inside my body and I need to get them out before they hatch
DM: You'll need the spider's permission first...

Hoopy Frood

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 04:33:54 AM »
Just wait until Scotland leaves the U.K. so it can join the E.U.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

The Hanged Man

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 08:54:41 AM »
Can the sensible people, who voted remain, come up and join them?  :(
The sun beyond the mountain glows
The yellow river seaward flows
You can enjoy a grander sight
By climbing to a greater height

I have run out of places to climb. I will abandon this body and take to the air. We will leave twin vapor trails in the air, white lines etched into these rocks. I am the aerial. In my passing, I will send news to each and every star.

Mrs Brown says: 'Hapiness is an effect, not a goal.'

Charlie is yelling @barit0wned
PC: A spider laid eggs inside my body and I need to get them out before they hatch
DM: You'll need the spider's permission first...

Hoopy Frood

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 05:16:21 AM »
Can the sensible people, who voted remain, come up and join them?  :(

I guess they'd have to ask the Scots about that.

But seeing as how 62% of Scots voted to stay in, when I posted last I was expecting Scotland would have another referendum on seceding from the U.K. And as of this post, there seems to be a big push for that.

And just like when outside observers pretty much agreed that it was to Scotland's advantage to remain part of the U.K., those same observers said it was to the U.K.'s advantage to remain in the E.U.

Now that the paradigm has shifted, and many Scots are angry about it, it looks like secession is possible. Plus, depending on the repercussions of the Brexit, it may be in Scotland's best interest to be part of the E.U. instead of the U.K.

*Goes to get some popcorn.*
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

TK

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 07:44:12 PM »
This is the best possible political result for Scottish independence. England and Wales have a mandate to leave the EU and the democratic deficit has never been quite so stark. There's no getting away from the fact that a large part of the Scottish vote was tactical but I do think we have a very different political outlook from the rUK, England in particular, so the result is still basically reflective of our view as a nation.

I'm not a braveheart Scot; inclusivity and diversity are at the core of the Scottish identity as I see it and the upswing in racist feeling and violent action through out the British Isles is deeply saddening but I think and hope it says more about our media than the average persons core values.

Hoopy Frood

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 04:31:10 AM »
Keep us posted from a "man on the street" perspective. While no doubt the whole situation will be big news for a while, it's always good to hear from those in the thick of it.

I'd be curious to hear how the rest of our UK members are feeling about the whole business. I might have to go poking around Facebook feeds and see if they've commented on it.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

TK

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 12:28:21 AM »
Will do.  There isn't a lot of movement so far but there has been some significant events, lots of tension and aggressive noises from the EU for us to get moving.  Nicola Sturgeon is making the case for Scotland in Europe meeting with various leaders and looking like a competent, eloquent stateswoman.  Farage has been a petulant child basically telling the european commission that they're work shy and out of touch while simultaneously telling them that they can keep their free movement but that he want preferential access to the free market; there was full on hysterics amid the boos and derisory clapping.  The Scottish representative on the other hand got a standing ovation for an impassioned speech explaining that Scots very much do want to be Europeans. 

Cameron has resigned leaving enacting the split to his replacement who are all trying to tone down the effects of the exit while trying to deflect from the lies of the campaign and their manifest lack of a plan, they really really don't seem to want this.  Scottish politics generally seems to be engaging with the issues in a fine display of statecraft to the extent where there was complete cross party agreement on the way forward regarding Sturgeon moving forward with the exception of the Tories who abstained, this is also fairly significant.

On the whole the UK government seem paralysed while Scotland is making huge steps in international legitimacy and respect, interesting times.

madbringer

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 05:57:17 AM »
I'm increasingly more worried what that decision might mean for Ireland. Sinn Fein is making it clear in no uncertain terms that they seek to capitalize and reunite with their northern brethren, and let's not forget, there is still a massive sectarian divide hanging overhead. Could mean The Troubles all over again, this time involving Scotland and Wales as well. The votes have hardly been uniform.

Bad time for the UK. Bad time for Europe, in fact. This will have bigger implications.

TK

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 08:08:00 AM »
The voting pattern in Ireland is particularly worrying; reunification may cause trouble, leaving will destroy the basis of the good Friday agreement and a deal where NI stay in may not be enough for some.

I don't think there's an appetite for wide scale violent civil disobedience in Scotland and Wales but certainly enough feeling for protest which could be manipulated towards violence.  The post EU UK is likely to be a bit of a powder keg unless the constitutional discrepencies are addressed this is straightforward for Scotland, awkward for NI and painful for Gibraltar and Wales.   

Turjan

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 03:54:33 PM »
The problem with this whole thing is not so much about the European Union, or the pros & cons of staying or leaving it...it's really about politics in general.

Specifically, how 'politics' as a concept is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century - and politicians have only themselves to blame for that.

By getting into bed so thoroughly with 24hr televised media, politicians have become a willing part of a celebrity-oriented, attention-seeking circle jerk. The media want their stories (good or bad, they don't care) and the politicians want their exposure in the limelight, so the unholy incestuous narcissism feedback loop continues unabated.

The key thing for me about the whole EU referendum is that BOTH main political parties campaigned to Remain. On the day of the vote, all the tv and online media were citing exit polls saying the remain voters had won - because that was they all expected. The sweeping arrogance of the politicians and journalists on tv the night of the referendum was quite frankly disgusting. Before the votes had actually been tallied, both the politicians and the media had already decided in their own minds how the vote result was going to go.

So when the actual result came in they were all completely lost and confused.
Which to my mind illustrated perfectly everything that's wrong with how the current culture of politics and media works. Because as always, the reality was that they were BOTH completely out of touch with what the public were really thinking and feeling.

Media and politicians take 'the people' for granted. For one, they're just 'ratings' and for the other they're merely a currency they use now and then to get elected. And so when these 'people' turn round and suddenly do something unexpected, the self-obsessed media and politicians automatically look around within their own ranks for someone to blame...because it simply couldn't be the 'people' could it? Because they're just...people, they can't think for themselves can they?

It shows with crystal clarity their extreme arrogance.
It simply never occurs to them for one instant that the public voted the way they did because they're actually utterly sick of politicians and media telling them what to think, saying they themselves are the only important ones, that they know best, and never bothering to listen to what the people actually think.

In very real terms, the referendum vote was nothing short of a revolution.

Except there were no guns or swords in this revolution, no noblemen facing the guillotine, or rich palaces being ransacked by outraged peasants.
No.
What's happening here is a communications revolution. It's all about the accessibility of information that was previously considered to be the exclusive bailiwick of the power-broking elite. By which I mean of course...the media and politicians. They are now no longer in control of information, but the sad truth is because they're so complacent and arrogant, they haven't realised it yet.

I predict this EU vote will only be the first of many similar situations around the globe, where 'people' will be the ones calling the shots, against the brainwashing desires of journalists and politicians.

And the really sad part?
In a way, the politicans are right. They ARE the ones who should be steering humanity's ship - but by allowing themselves to be blindsided by the lure of celebrity, they've ended up forfeiting any right they had to be respected. And when people see the excesses of politicians, and the sickening hyperbole of headline-grabbing journalism, they just say "You know what? Screw it. Screw you, and you, and all this! It's not relevant to me any more. If you want my respect, my vote, my views, then you have to damn well EARN it!"

TK

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Re: R.I.P The United Kingdom...
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 01:08:23 AM »
Nice to see you post Turkana

Another key thing the EU vote illustrates is the democratic and constitutional disparities in the UK, a marginal result over the UK as a whole contrasts sharply with the 62% remain vote in Scotland yet the expectation is that we should be pulled out of the EU since we are a part of the UK; we've been trying to say for years that we live in a hegemony this is a stark representation of that.

I think social media is a vital tool for disseminating ideas and information but it does have a dangerous habit of acting like an echo or amplification chamber.  I'm hard pressed to see an alternative now though since journalistic rigour and integrity seem to be a rare commodity these days.