Author Topic: Bible Fight!  (Read 17989 times)

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Solwyn

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Bible Fight!
« on: September 07, 2007, 07:13:20 PM »
No not the [adult swim] game.

I promised Brug I'd move this to another thread and finally got around to doing the research, so here goes (anyone else feel free to jump in here but keep in mind our debate is academic and theological in nature, so rhetorical fallacy will be mocked).

Potentially, my assertion is, (for the most part) as the catholic church teaches...

The holy books of the bible are divinely inspired, as in God worked through imperfect servants as imperfect tools to impart His message. Therefore the message must be judged by the spirit, rather than the letter of the words. Various forms of copying, editing, and translating into various languages affect the letter of the law. Additionally, the bible uses extensive parable to explain impossible situations to human minds, and therefore contains stories and metaphors that should not be taken literally. Biblical contradictions exist, following the Rule of Contradictions, but these are not by any means an issue to be taken into account to the validity of the bible, they are proof that the bible is written and transcribed by imperfect authors.

SO:

The following "alleged" contradiction is not truly a contradiction due to the law of contradictions.

The two thieves reviled Christ.  (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

The reason is because two witnesses corroborate that they saw two thieves, and a third confirms only one. For the purpose of legal documentation, this would not be a contradiction, as only a testament that a person is in another place counts as a contradiction (alibi).

The following contradiction would, from an academic standpoint, be verifiable.

(Matthew 10:10)  Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals.  (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

Matthew states that Jesus SPECIFICALLY told them not to take a staff or sandals. Mark states that Jesus SPECIFICALLY told them TO take a staff and sandals. These two testimonies contradict each other. In a court case, you'd say that Jesus must have specifically mentioned both things, because two people remember that. But they differ one whether he asserted to take them or not.

I don't see this as a crisis of faith, as by my interperetation, details such as these are only important for story telling and the flow of the parable. But I think they prove that biblical inerrancy is problematic, as the literal word is contradictory. But I feel like the spirit is still there.

Discuss!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 07:14:58 PM by Solwyn »
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
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Brugdor

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 07:20:14 PM »
Sorry man. As I mentioned in the other thread I've semi-retired from the debate forums for now. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.  :)
"When planning a new picture we don't think of grown ups and we don't think of children but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us that maybe the world has made us forget and that maybe our pictures can help recall." - Walt Disney

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 07:20:56 PM »
I win! One to nuthin!
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 08:00:17 PM »
So... I can use the "Law of Contradictions" to validate my contradictions.

*nods*

I like that.

"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 08:04:00 PM »
Thanks Aristotle!
"one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time".
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 08:05:40 PM »
"It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims."
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 09:02:44 PM »
"Bashfulness is an ornament to youth, but a reproach to old age."
Aristotle
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 09:09:38 PM »
“The young are permanently in a state resembling intoxication.”
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 09:23:35 PM »
"Education is the best provision for old age."
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 09:25:19 PM »
"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."

So sue me...
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 09:32:38 PM »
hahah
Are we switching to sports quotes?

In that case, "I've had to overcome a lot of diversity."
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 09:40:35 PM »
"Well, that was a cliff-dweller."
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Hoopy Frood

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 10:14:52 PM »
I don't think either one of you are giving 110% anymore.

On a side note, the whole 110% thing is why most athletes are athletes instead of, say, proving the existence of dark matter and forming principles of string theory. That whole non-grasp of basic math skills gets in the way.
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

Solwyn

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 10:18:00 PM »
"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
"Honor is the combination of idealism and the practical application of
it without regard for its personal cost to you."

BlueCross

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Re: Bible Fight!
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 10:23:45 PM »
"If you don't dissagree with me, how will I know I'm right?"
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD