The Politically (In)Correct Thread

[KMD]

So with the (American) presidential election coming up an all, I had an idea. Lets start a thread where we can express (Read: Vent) our opinions, political or otherwise and we can debate them if you want. Prepare to get riled up!

Let me start it up by saying that I don't claim to follow or understand politics very well. But that being said there is something i've started to notice.

It feels like we're entering a strange time, in America. But why do elections feel so black and white? The bi-partisan system is starting to seem silly to me. You have a choice of two candidates, each with a very different approach than the other. If you don't like either, you can vote for someone else, but your vote is essentially wasted since the vast majority will only vote for those two. You're outnumbered by people who really don't care. So you might as well vote for who you dislike the least. Its a scary way of thinking, and that concerns me.

Also, i'm going to be blunt and say that
- The massive amounts of hispanic immigrants is a plague to this country
- Abortion is totally fine, and in some cases I think it should be mandatory, or penalized if not done
- "The Drug War" isnt a "War" and can't be "Won"
- Some kids just need to fail.

Alright. Let it all out guys. Remember, you're semi-anonymous here.

[The Hanged Man]

The bi-partisan system is starting to seem silly to me. You have a choice of two candidates, each with a very different approach than the other. If you don't like either, you can vote for someone else, but your vote is essentially wasted since the vast majority will only vote for those two. You're outnumbered by people who really don't care. So you might as well vote for who you dislike the least. It’s a scary way of thinking, and that concerns me.

That's First past the post for you, basically it always ends the same way, two parties with a lot of votes wasted... it would seem less black and white if they introduced a new proportionate system which the number of seats for each parties were balanced with the number of votes.

Well I have one thing to bring to the table... and it isn't my hate for the Liberal Democrats for once.

Recently I saw a documentary which worked around this theory that people have stopped voting on issues that immediately affect them and focus on smaller issues which have very little to no effect on them. Examples of these smaller issues would be gay marriage, abortion and immigration at a stretch.

These issues are banged out by politicians because they get votes, it satisfies the public and is an excuse to avoid talking about the future of your job or an issue that does directly affect you that you would want to hear. At the time I agreed that well this is obviously happening people care more about things that affect other people than things that immediately affect them. I mean how does gay marriage affect a heterosexual man? Unless they are campaigning to keep homosexual couples from marrying in their church which sort of makes sense, but if you are just homophobic then it has no effect on you and shouldn't sway your vote. The sad reality is that these tiny, insignificant issues sway votes...

But then I thought about it some more and went back to stage one, I've already mentioned that people will vote against their best interest to get a representative who tackles the issues they care about. I find that it goes deeper than that when you think about it... what is the point in voting? It's to get your voice across, why do you need to get your voice across and choose a party to represent your views? Because some things are going to affect you more than others. How much tax you pay for instance, where government spending goes and how you and your family are supported when it comes to the government. However, if this is the case then voting have become arse backwards in my view because people aren't voting for what immediately affects them!

If you think about what I've wrote above people will vote for homosexuals to be banned from getting hitched in a church, but what about things that effect them immediately? It's rare that I hear people who care who they vote for talk about this stuff and it's rare that the news does. Anywho down to my point, voting is meant for people to attempt to improve their own lives! Even if this was at the expense of others (such as higher tax on the rich) it would still be logical because you want the politicians to make your life better. This isn't how it works anymore, people are now voting not to make their lives better, but to make other people's lives worse. If all you care about is banning a person from doing something that has no or little effect on you then it kind of shows the broken society we live in. A world where people spitefully would vote to have their home town nuked if it meant that people couldn't have abortions.

I can't help, but feel that democracy is bad thing now I try to see it in a positive light, but to no avail. Though that is just my opinion and my opinion has gotten me thrown out of public establishments before.

[Desolo]

The Two party system has become stagnant, and politicians are in it for a career and power.
I still hold by what Ive said before. Liquidate the parties, and the term limit is to be ONE term. NO career politicians. NO mass advertising campaigns.
Canidates must be drawn from the PUBLIC and allow people to decide by watching debates done by impartial means.
When its no longer a game maybe then it will actually DO something.

Also: DISSOLVE the electoral college, its a useless relic. With the way things are now with information tech the popular vote SHOULD be used for voting.

[Swash]

Another quirk of electoral systems:
In Australia we have a representative system - people vote for someone to represent their electorate, whichever party wins the most seats runs the government.

Let's say there's 100 electorate all up (for simplicity of mathematics sake.)  Each electorate has 100 voters (again, for simplicity)
In 60 of the electorates, 60 people vote for party A.  In the remaining 40 electorates 90 people vote for party B.

In spite of the fact that 60% of voters chose party B, party A wins the election because they won in more electorates.

Changing the numbers around, with party A winning in 75% of the electorates with only 60% of the votes in those electorates and only getting 10% of the vote in the remaining electorates, they'd still control 75% of the seats in government having only received roughly 47% of the country's votes.

This leads to some electorates being sidelined, constantly overlooked for all but the most unpopular projects (I live in one party's safest electorate in the nation...coincidentally, when that party was in government, this electorate was chosen to take in the refugees from the Iraq and Afghan wars without any committment to improve the infrastructure in the area)

I could rant about the effects that's had on the local economy, but meh.

[The Hanged Man]

A(lternative)V(ote)?
We had a referendum on it a year or two ago, turnout was low and the "yes" vote was even lower.

[KMD]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm voting for Gary Johnson tommorow. I have actually checked his political standings and I like them for the most part.

If he gets %5 of the votes, the Libertarian party will essentially become the third major party in politics. I really hope this happens, it could have long lasting effects.

[The Hanged Man]

Doesn't that usually contribute to the spoiler effect?  (I'm not complaining)

I'm hoping to stay up to watch the results unfold and in my time zone that means staying up, it's going to be a hard core all nighter!
I might watch several films before midnight like "don't look now" in order to make it through the night without nodding off.

[KMD]

Thats really the main argument. I've heard "You're throwing your vote away/ It will increase chances of Romney winning" more times than I can count this week. But let me tell you something, its bullshit!

To try and make my third party vote seem like its passively working against the lesser of two evils is, even if statistically correct, outright propaganda. Voting for who I want is the responsible thing to do, and the only wasted vote is none at all.

Anyway, even with a small percentage of people voting third party, I call that Obama will still win. If Romney wins, I will honestly be scared for the future of this country.

[Desolo]

Im getting ready to head out and vote myself.... This is gonna be messy whomever wins. I just wish that someone other then the two main parties COULD win. 

[The Hanged Man]

I was expecting it to be a very close shave, but Obama nearly won by nearly 100 points according to this http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/html/Years/2012/USElectionLive2012/indexmap.html

[Desolo]

Thats electoral college based. The popular vote should be an interesting thing to see.

[KMD]

Thats electoral college based. The popular vote should be an interesting thing to see.

For a while, I thought Romney was going to win the pop vote.
who did you vote for josh?

[Dourak]

As a matter of fact, the election system is pretty much different in France.
If I'm saying that, it's because the american/australian way of electing a president seems not being really influenced by people's votes (unless I'm understanding it wrong, it's possible).
In my country, people actually votes directly for the president (i'm wondering if it isn't the way europeen country does, but I really sucks in international politics).
However, were are blocked in a two-party situation, like yours.
Desolo was talking about a deep "refining" of the political organization.
Well, I may be pretty pessimistic, but I think that a political refining will, one day or the other, lead us back again to the old fashioned democratic government we already leavin' in. Actually, that's what lead us to that point, so ... (okay, maybe my french point of vue here is still affected by our last "big refining" of the political system, wich led us to Napoléon. You see my point here, I guess.)
Personnally, I will no extend my belief, because they are not really relevant (or too crazy, don't know. For the reccord, I'm wath american can call an left-extremist damn communist (wich in France is just the left part of politics), with all the social care stuff, homo-homies marriage and adoption, abortion, stem cell research, huge robot everywhere and shit (told you it was a non-sense), and an economy mostly based of let's steal -insert people community/country here- ), especially in this context (financial crisis and stuff), but I was wondering why, according to KMD, the hispanic immigration is a plague for the United States ?
I mean ... they brought you tacos, right ? You should thanks them for eternity after that !

[The Hanged Man]

why, according to KMD, the hispanic immigration is a plague for the United States ?
I mean ... they brought you tacos, right ? You should thanks them for eternity after that !

They also bought some badass hats!

[Desolo]

Thats electoral college based. The popular vote should be an interesting thing to see.

For a while, I thought Romney was going to win the pop vote.
who did you vote for josh?

Gary Johnson, figured Id rather vote for a 3rd party rather then either of the other two. Plus I can get behind some of the things the Libertarians would like to do.

(I myself am registered unaffilated)