Author Topic: Something's up with the plot of Terminator 4 that they're not telling us.  (Read 3751 times)

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Loveshack

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Okay, I don't know specifically what's up, but I think that there's definitely some sort of "Gotcha!" moment planned for Terminator 4.  If, and this is a BIG if, but if this is the final installment in the series and they're going for a sort of berserk magnum opus where they pull out all the stops, then I'm certain we're going to get some stuff no one was planning.

What we know:
1.  John Connor is in it.
2.  The movie takes place at a point when the terminators as we know them (the T-800/850 "Arnold Model", are in their prototype phase and have not gone online yet, and the current infiltrator units are the unconvincing T-700s, possibly the rubber-skinned ones mentioned by Kyle Reese.  They are far too bulky to pass for human on close inspection, and lack some of the advanced capabilities of the "Arnold Model".  and are generally more angular and darker colored than the T-800 endoskeleton.
3.  CGI Arnold is in it in a cameo, since regular Arnold can't pass for the 'roided out beast he was back in 1984.
4.  Call it bad writing, but due to the butterfly effect, small deviations in the progression of events as they originally happened crop up every time someone or something goes back in time.  Their presence alters the future just by displacing the oxygen that would have occupied the empty space they are currently occupying, which could account for things like why Judgement Day happened in 2003 instead of 1997, etc.
5.  John Connor was killed by a T-850 "Arnold Model" in the future due to John's memories of the identical model that protected him from the T-1000.  The Resistance captured this T-850 and sent it back in time to 2003 to protect Connor from the T-X, at the same time they sent Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back through time to protect Sarah Connor in 1984 and John Connor in 1991 respectively.  Afterward, according to Reese, they planned to destroy the time machine, and we can assume they did just that.  Reese also says that Skynet is destroyed by the time they find this time machine.  Now, the T-850 warns John Connor in 2003 that prior to its reprogramming, he killed him in the future, so you have to wonder...

1.  Does John Connor's foreknowledge of both the progression of Skynet's technology AND his eventual assassination prevent  the assassination from being successful this time around?  How much has the timeline been altered from the way the terminators described it?  Remember, it was the changes in the timeline that prevented Judgement Day for 6 years and made Skynet a software based program instead of a computer network with a central core.  If the timeline can be skewed so much from it's original course, the information John might know about future events could be completely worthless.

He might die in this one.  The human resistance will still win of course, but maybe he will be a martyr.  Something else to consider is that every version of Connor from the future shown thusfar, including the Nick Stahl version, has a huge scar down one side of his face.  They never explain where he got it, and the Christian Bale Connor doesn't have one.  So either the event that he got it from hasn't happened yet, or the timeline has changed so that the event never happens, or...

Christian Bale isn't really John Connor.  The reason I suggest this is because if you go to your toy store right now, they have the Terminator 4 toys on display.  Not only is Connor not advertised on the back of the packaging, but his figure has a completely covered face!  No skin showing whatsoever.  There are some normal reasons for this.  Sometimes they haven't finished final casting for a movie when they toys go into production, as was the case with Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, where all of the early Robin Hoods had a generic head sculpt and later batches had a retooled Kostner head.  Or, maybe Bale didn't agree to likeness rights for this movie, which seems very unlikely considering that he was a-ok with it for the Batman stuff, and I doubt the studio would have allowed it.  So maybe, he's not the real Connor.  Something else is that that hideous scar that the other Connors had is roughly the same size and spot as the big gash you see on the side of Terminator Marcus Wright's face, and we know that the living skin on a terminator can heal up, from what Arnold said in T2.  So I'm wondering if at some point Connor will be killed and Wright or somebody will take his place, or if Bale is a decoy all along.  Seems kind of dumb for the savior of the resistance to be on the front lines like Bale is, doesn't it?

I'm remembering the Batman Begins toys where for the first couple months after the movie was out, they called the Liam Neeson figure Ducard, and then later on released another one calling him Ras Al Ghul.  They spoil the surprise twist in the movie, and I'm wondering if they're doing the same thing here.
"Nice try Horrigan!  Now... TASTE THE FURY OF VIC'S PIPE RIFLE!"

KMD

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Sounds cool, I saw an early showing of T3 (It was the first one I saw), and it was good. Since then, I've seen the other two. And the 4th is going to be the last right? Thats what Ive heard for a while.
In the wasteland, the sly survive and the past and present are one, the sinners rot and the future is the ultimate purgatory

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Loveshack

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And the 4th is going to be the last right? Thats what Ive heard for a while.

Yep, just like the second one.
"Nice try Horrigan!  Now... TASTE THE FURY OF VIC'S PIPE RIFLE!"

Night Owl

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5.  John Connor was killed by a T-850 "Arnold Model" in the future due to John's memories of the identical model that protected him from the T-1000.  The Resistance captured this T-850 and sent it back in time to 2003 to protect Connor from the T-X, at the same time they sent Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed T-800 back through time to protect Sarah Connor in 1984 and John Connor in 1991 respectively.  Afterward, according to Reese, they planned to destroy the time machine, and we can assume they did just that.  Reese also says that Skynet is destroyed by the time they find this time machine.  Now, the T-850 warns John Connor in 2003 that prior to its reprogramming, he killed him in the future, so you have to wonder...

Know what I never understood? Why didn't the humans just use the time machine to go back in time to when the time machine was first invented, destroy it then, so then they couldn't send any terminators after John and his mom in the first place, and any terminators already sent would...

oh, wait...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 06:07:41 AM by Night Owl »

Loveshack

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Know what I never understood? Why didn't the humans just use the time machine to go back in time to when the time machine was first invented, destroy it then, so then they couldn't send any terminators after John and his mom in the first place, and any terminators already sent would...

oh, wait...

Well, ordinarily any of the actions in these films would have created a huge temporal paradox.  I.E.  If Skynet succeeds in preventing John Connor from growing up and leading the resistance, then why would Skynet send Terminators into the past in the first place.

If terminators are never sent back through time, the wreckage of the first terminator is never found and never used as the basis for Skynet's creation which in turn leads to the creation of the terminators and Judgement Day.

If terminators are never sent back through time, Kyle Reese is never sent back through time to protect Sarah Connor and become John Connor's father.

But this is all explained by a theory of time travel that states that the events of the movie is how the time line was fated to progress from the get-go, so in fact the future is never changed from its original path, it only appears that way to people living at various points in the timeline.

The other theory is called the N-Jump theory that states that although it may appear that John Connor's and Skynet's existence are pivotal for each other's creation, since Skynet would not need to send a terminator back through time to kill his mother or him had he not grown up to be the leader of the Resistance, and at the same time not spawned its own creation as a result, Kyle Reese would never have been sent through time and fathered John Connor.

The N-Jump states that although the end result in the timeline is the same, I.E. Judgment Day, the events leading up to it, prior to any time-traveling taking place, would have been different.  I.E.  John Connor's father, whoever he was, was just some guy living in 1984 Los Angeles who impregnated Sarah Connor and died before Judgement Day, and Skynet was developed by Cyberdyne systems through normal technological progression without the kick start from the recovered terminator wreckage.  (A deleted scene from the first movie shows that the factory where Sarah crushes the terminator in an aluminum press is in fact a Cyberdyne manufacturing facility, and of course, we see what happened to the first terminator's remains in the second movie.)  However, when the Terminators and the various protector figures were send back through time.  The timeline was slightly altered, but still had the same ultimate outcome.

Another mystery of the movie is who authored the "No fate but what we make for ourselves." speech.  Every character in the movies thusfar who recites it learned it from someone else.  Kyle Reese teaches it to Sarah, who teaches it to John Connor, who teaches it to Kyle Reese.  It's a paradox.  Assuming that the original timeline, prior to any time traveling by terminators or protectors. was different from the way it is in the films, then someone had to have been the original author of the speech, presumably John Connor, since Kyle tells Sarah he learned it from Connor, and recites it to her prior to John's birth, AND they haven't conceived John yet, succeeded in killing the terminator yet, nor has the terminator succeeded in killing Sarah, which means that the original timeline is probably still intact at that point.  In the "new" timeline, where the various time-traveling antics occurred in the various movies, the speech appears to have no author, but rather always existed, (though I have my suspicions that the speech will come from another character in this new movie, and though Connor will remember his mother telling it to him as a child, this is what will inspire him to tell it to Kyle Reese).

Of course, it's equally possible that the timeline as it occurs in the movie, including all the time "altering" shenanigans is exactly how the timeline was fated to progress from the get-go.  But that would mean that the speech was a complete lie.  My head hurts.

"Nice try Horrigan!  Now... TASTE THE FURY OF VIC'S PIPE RIFLE!"

Swash

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Then there's the "multiple realities" theory of time travel where you can't change your own present by going into the past because every change you make just sets of new branches of reality.  When you return (IF you return) nothing has changed because you've gone back to the reality you came from.  This would add a nice resilience to time travel - nobody can change their own history but they can change someone else's but since you can't see the results why would anyone bother?  Consequently nobody can be erased by having their children killed before they were born.

Loveshack

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Then there's the "multiple realities" theory of time travel where you can't change your own present by going into the past because every change you make just sets of new branches of reality.  When you return (IF you return) nothing has changed because you've gone back to the reality you came from.  This would add a nice resilience to time travel - nobody can change their own history but they can change someone else's but since you can't see the results why would anyone bother?  Consequently nobody can be erased by having their children killed before they were born.

But wouldn't Skynet, being an artificial intelligence whose entire essence was based on mathematics, analysis, and statistics, have realized this, and therefore the futility of trying to kill Sarah  and John Connor?
"Nice try Horrigan!  Now... TASTE THE FURY OF VIC'S PIPE RIFLE!"

Swash

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Ah, but the creators of Skynet, being scientific pioneers, would find the idea of being unable to change history abhorrent because that would mean they'd have to believe in destiny.

Since Skynet's concept of time travel would be based on the model they devised and taught to it, it wouldn't consider the idea that it couldn't succeed.

Doombot

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Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


Night Owl: Oh, indeed. I quit many a job ...better than being fired. You can keep your card... in fact, you get double points for quitting!


Celest

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Well the whole Terminator storyline makes no sense at all anyways.

It is, essentially, the future creating itself. Reese and the T-800 et all.