American Identity

[Solwyn]

I threw this in the debate forum, although I meant it more as a sharing of opinions (some of which MIGHT be contradictory). This president's day, I've been thinking about how we Americans see our nation, and how other nations see us. On the world scene, America's reputation is greatly tarnished, but as I'm sure many of you non-US villagers can attest, that doesn't affect your opinion of we, the populace, just our idiot leadership (and possibly by relation us for allowing them to get elected).

After reading the link Doombot posted about the Aussie Identity, I started to realize that America is ridiculously diverse in opinion and identity, and I don't think any one person can sum up a list of things that identify us. So:

Americans - list some things that you feel make up the identity of the America you know.

Non-Americans - list some perceptions you have of the identity of Americans.

I'll start:

I think conflict is the essence of American culture. There are always at least two camps to any major issue, and they are usually hotly debating each other. I'm sure that's true in every nation but I'm genuinely hard-pressed to think of a single issue all Americans agree upon, other than the fact that this is the best place to live (otherwise they wouldn't live here).

With that in mind, I think the best way to describe an American is to say they are diverse. But, three examples to get the ball rolling.

1) Pride in national sports heroes: the UK has David Beckham, and he's a big deal. To anyone from Colorado, John Elway is a GOD.
2) The "conservative" ethic - no matter how liberal or conservative, every American has this ideal that the world was better at some point in the past and they need to go back to it (aka pre-Civil War for some people, the return of the Clinton Administration for others).
3) Hatred of Paris Hilton - If you like her, you're not an American.

[BlueCross]

1)  I've become rather interested in Danica Patrick
2)  I liked 1977 pretty well.
3) You forgot the corollary: If you like her, you're not a non-American.

[Solwyn]

1)  I've become rather interested in Danica Patrick

I figured you liked fast women.

2)  I liked 1977 pretty well.

I'd heard a Rumour to that effect.

3) You forgot the corollary: If you like her, you're not a non-American.

Implicit in the initial requirement that all Americans must hate her. Corollary self-evident on assumption that hate is the absence of like.

[Doombot]

I'm off to work so this may come off as quickly written.

1. The assumption that you can 'make it'.

Your parents don't have to belong to 'old' money. You don't have to be Thurstan Howell the IV. There's a fairly good chance that if you work and are smart, you can make it in America and make it big. America's full of immigrants and born nationals that started with nothing and became million or even billionaires. There's the thought that it's possible.

2. Guns.

American's love their guns. Even I shot guns and I'm not a gun nut.

3. Violence.

We're a violent culture.

4. Too uptight on sex.

If it's the president doing something with an intern or a flash of a boob... we American's go into an outrage. We can show movies where people are hacked with a saw, or have a ear sliced off while dancing to 70's music but NEVER show 'too much' nudity.

5. Freedom

It seems like more of it's going away with restrictive government policies but freedom to do what you want with common sense is an American theme. You want to start a business? Go for it. You want to protest the government? Go for it. (We'll... kinda. It's just more hard) You want to go into the middle of nowhere and live? Go for it. You want to modify your body to look like a lizard man? Go for it.

6. Immigrants.

We're a nation of immigrants. Most Americans love the idea. We just don't like people coming into the country and getting what's perceived to be a free ride.

7. Nature

Something about unspoiled nature just seems American. Perhaps it's a lingering feeling from our pioneer days.

8. Cowboys (and Cowgirls)

It wasn't that long about that we were a frontier culture. The movies of that time were still popular till the 60's and that leaves a cultural mark.

9. WW2

A overwhelmingly feeling of pride how we Americans saved Europe from the Nazi hordes.

_{Just trolling on that last one.}

[Solwyn]

4. Too uptight on sex.

I agree. Although I think it's funny, showing a girl in a swimsuit made up of barely more than two nickels and a shoelace is acceptable, even when she's jumping up and down. But if you show a nipple, so help you God...

6. Immigrants.

I agree with this one. I'm a European-American Mutt, and I'm second-generation American from four different countries. I just get pissed when immigrants:
-Refuse to learn English. I realize America has no official language but just learn a trade language. If I lived in China I don't expect I'd get along very far without knowing some Chinese.
-Refuse to become citizens. You can keep all aspects of your culture, America's not trying to rape you of it. Just start paying taxes like the rest of us and you can do whatever you want.

9. WW2

A overwhelmingly feeling of pride how we Americans saved Europe from the Nazi hordes.

How many Swiss people does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to change the light bulb, and the other to remain neutral as Hitler's armies sweep across Europe.

[TK]

My brother and I were discussing the fact that Americans are seen as stupid because some seem to have little knowledge about the world outside of America.  We kind of came to the conclusion that while ignorance played a part the fact that America is so vast and diverse means it's slightly inevitable that they won't feel the need to look outside of thier own country.

Ignorance and blindness is pretty much unversal though

I think it's true that it's a widely captialist society with a strong emphasis of self reliance and a lot of sink or swim mentality, but again, America is such a huge country that blanket statements about the identity of the average American just don't work.

Then again I could be wrong and you may all be illiterate, incompetent savages who still need the iron fist of us more cultured and evolved Brits. 

[Brugdor]

My brother and I were discussing the fact that Americans are seen as stupid because some seem to have little knowledge about the world outside of America.  We kind of came to the conclusion that while ignorance played a part the fact that America is so vast and diverse means it's slightly inevitable that they won't feel the need to look outside of thier own country.

Ignorance and blindness is pretty much unversal though

I think it's true that it's a widely captialist society with a strong emphasis of self reliance and a lot of sink or swim mentality, but again, America is such a huge country that blanket statements about the identity of the average American just don't work.

Then again I could be wrong and you may all be illiterate, incompetent savages who still need the iron fist of us more cultured and evolved Brits. 

Why do we have to learn more about the rest of the world when examples of the rest of the world are all over the place inside our country? The great thing about the US is that it truly is a melting pot of cultures.

As you said, blanket statements are not very accurate but I'm sure there is a reason the stereotype of the American tourist exists.  More than likely it's because those that fit the stereotype are easy to spot and those that don't aren't ever really noticed. That's right, there are secret ninja Americans in your country right now.

I'm not really a traveling type person and I have a short list of places I want to see outside of Georgia. The list is even shorter when I narrow it to foreign points of interest.

*shrug*

[TK]

That's what I meant Brug but I probably didn't express myself particularly well though. You have deserts and jungles and swamps and all kinds of other things like mountains and a truly diverse climate that means you don't need to step much outside of the American territories to see a large part of what the rest of the world has to offer.

That felt weird... Agreeing with brug? WTF?  *nudge* *wink*

Damned American ninjas! I've seen them, they stand in plain sight doing normal things and being totally innocuous, they make my skin crawl!

[Solwyn]

Then again I could be wrong and you may all be illiterate, incompetent savages who still need the iron fist of us more cultured and evolved Brits. 

See attached image.

I'm not really a traveling type person and I have a short list of places I want to see outside of Georgia. The list is even shorter when I narrow it to foreign points of interest.

I think a lot of the "rest of the world" (read the EU and other places where countries are fairly close to one another) tends to see that as us being narrow-minded.

I think a lot of people chastise we Texans for not using a lot of mass transit. Yeah every major city in Texas has a mass transit system (DFW, Houston, Austin etc) but every major city is so far from the others, it's not feasible to set up a system between them. Unless you want to take the Greyhound which ends up being a huge pain.

But I digress... what I meant to say is that I really want to see the world outside of this country, but because of my job and a variety of other things I just haven't been able to. Maybe that's the "excuse" a lot of Americans use but some like Brug don't care much to leave in the first place, once again showing that whole two sides of every issue deal.

But the point of the thread was to point out things you personally feel make up the identity of the nation. Good points either way.

[BlueCross]

Why do we have to learn more about the rest of the world when examples of the rest of the world are all over the place inside our country?

Not.
Quite.
The.
Same.

Or even close.

But it's true.  You don't have to learn more about the rest of the world.  *bites tongue at this point*

[TK]

I see your little football thug and raise you a national treasure.

It's a hard one to answer Solwyn, personally I've met Americans from a lot of different places but I don't think I could form a coherent picture or solid opinion on American identity.  More to the point I couildn't pin down a solid cultural identity at work in Scotland so that informs my opinion on National identity on a general sense. The media etc would like me to have an image of the middle east as a land of savages but I know that it just isn't true; people go out to a job every morning, worry about grey hair and do the best for thier families regardless of where they come from.

I think certain cultural motivators dictate the outward form of a national identity, Denmark is a country with a tiny divide between the rich and poor and a cultural de-emphasis on personal material wealth and a positive emphasis on domestic and sexual equality.  A lot of the world kind of sees them as boring and bland people but thier social structure and the claimed socail harmony is inspiring.

If I were to catagorise America it would likely be in terms of astounding cultural diversity with a largely, but by no means universal, appreciation and pride in that diversity.  To be honest though I've not had any real first hand experience of America to form a coherent opinion.

[Brugdor]

Why do we have to learn more about the rest of the world when examples of the rest of the world are all over the place inside our country?

Not.
Quite.
The.
Same.

Or even close.

But it's true.  You don't have learn more about the rest of the world.  *bites tongue at this point*

That's what Discovery channel is for. I get to watch other cultures in their full glory from the comfort of my own living room and I don't even have to risk drinking their water.

*nods*

Edit - I feel I should add that this is more about my personal hatred of travel more than anything. I'm just not a person that likes to throw all my comforts to the wind to put up with a stressful trip somewhere where I'll inevitably be forced to go see things at someone else's pace instead of just wandering out and enjoying my free time.

I have MeKong: Soul of a River on tivo atm. It's all about wildlife on the river and it's in HD. That's good enough for me. 

[TK]

This reminds me of a story my friend told me recently.

He worked with a girl who had taken her suitcase into work because she was heading straight from work to catch a plane to Europe, possibly Italy, and she was taking all her gear out to show it off.  At the bottom of her case there was a large cardboard box and someone asked what was in it, 'twelve pot noodles' she replied when asked why she said 'I'm not eating any of that foreign muck, I'd rather take my own muck.'

Stupid woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_Noodle almost unversally reviled as being truly terrible and one of the few foods where the container tastes better than the contents.

[Brugdor]

This reminds me of a story my friend told me recently.

He worked with a girl who had taken her suitcase into work because she was heading straight from work to catch a plane to Europe, possibly Italy, and she was taking all her gear out to show it off.  At the bottom of her case there was a large cardboard box and someone asked what was in it, 'twelve pot noodles' she replied when asked why she said 'I'm not eating any of that foreign muck, I'd rather take my own muck.'

Stupid woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_Noodle almost unversally reviled as being truly terrible and one of the few foods where the container tastes better than the contents.

I reminded you of that?  :inquisitive:

I would have no problem eating foreign food. I eat it here all the time. Granted it's often Americanized but plenty of traditional restaurants can be found. I think I would probably draw the line at monkey brains...and English food.   

[Solwyn]

I see your little football thug and raise you a national treasure.

I see your national treasure and raise you a fine import.

I guess it's hard to explain, but yeah I was just trying to see how people felt identified.

To be honest I feel very closely tied to what some call the "flag-waving patriot" aspect of our culture. I see myself as a transcendentalist, a promoter of free thought and action, and so forth. But like most freethinkers I hit a lot of backwards thinking people running the other way. And then we all stay about where we started, and there you have America.