Author Topic: So apparently that whole no guns thing in England isn't turning out so well  (Read 17301 times)

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Brugdor

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Re: So apparently that whole no guns thing in England isn't turning out so well
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 06:29:56 PM »

The police cannot be everywhere

Or anywhere in some cities.  :P

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A gun will protect me by killing/scaring away the burglar, rapist,

or centipede *nods*
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Doombot

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Re: So apparently that whole no guns thing in England isn't turning out so well
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2007, 07:07:19 PM »

The police cannot be everywhere

Or anywhere in some cities.  :P

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A gun will protect me by killing/scaring away the burglar, rapist,

or centipede *nods*

It's the only way to be sure.
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The SysMan

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Re: So apparently that whole no guns thing in England isn't turning out so well
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2007, 11:17:42 PM »
I thought that was nuking the site from orbit?
"This man seems to possess a dangerous animal cunning... The kind of cleverness to rip off your arms to crush you at chess!"

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Na_Day

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I'm not sure if I get the whole 'I own a gun for protection' thing, could someone explain the mechanics?     

Certainly.  But I'm gonna start low on the totem pole.
 If, for instance, you come across a wild but wounded boar, which amounts to 'in rage' what are you going to do?  Run?  Nope, it's faster than you.  Kill in with your bare hands?  Good luck.  Stab it with a knife?  Not much better.  You right then and there need a gun, because it is the only tool that will work.

For the record, I've lived in places where this problem exists and has occurred as often as twice a week.  One such location with in Columbia MD, a very ritzy and expensive and overcrowded suburb about fifteen minutes north of DC, except it was a buck that had been hit by a car and the driver hadn't killed the poor thing.  Once I found out the person simply left it there and called animal control hoping someone would come by to save it.

(For the record, if you hit a dear and it's lying on the side of the road still breathing but bleeding, don't call animal control, get a knife or firearm, and kill it.  It's more humane and less dangerous for everyone.  And, yes, animal control will do the exact same thing.)

Working up: Humans. Pistols and firearms works to prevent crime, believe it or not.  Why?  People don't want to get shot!  Now, since I'm trying to argue this without resorting to conversational terrorism, I'm not going to site facts or statistics.  ALL of them are biased on both sides of the arguement.  But I will say that I feel more comfortable where I am now, knowing all my neighbors are armed and trained with firearms, that at any point during my stay in baltimore.

Then what happens if someone should break in?  Well then, I have to use the words of Paul Tibbets when someone asked him why he had a shotgun to defend himself instead of a bat: "I'm too old to swing a bat around, but I can still use a shotgun."  It's the same point: It's an equalizer.  A crook at the very least is probably going to be in much better shape than you.  They tend to move a lot of good very quickly for a living.  Second, they probably have a gun themselves, as equalizers in case rule one doesn't hold true.  (No, they don't carry guns because people carry guns, but because they don't know for sure that Schwarzenegger didn't drop by for the night in the two minutes they weren't looking.).

As one last point, I would point out that even if you don't fire at the crook, a gun still works in your favor.  Firing a gun is one way to quickly clear a house.  People normally can't tell where it's fired from, and most people won't wait around to see if they are actually being fired at or not.  They'll get out alive and try for a different house later on.

Note, I did not use any examples of crazed murderers, random stories, or statistics.  I tried to keep in all relevant material to explain my point of view, nothing more. (The animal incidents are things my neighbors left to me for almost a year and a half, so I can stand beside them.)
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TK

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I can completely understand your point about animals, if you're out in the wild where sharp things with big teeth aren't aware that you don't see yourself as part of a food chain having a gun is a necessity.  I'm also all for humane killing.

I come from a culture where we don't expect people to carry a gun so using a gun for protection is a fairly exotic concept.  My concern is that there's a kill or be killed attitude in America and that there are people who own a gun in the hope of being able to use it some day, I understand the concept of owning a gun as a deterrent. 

I suppose my question hinges on a lingering bias of the American populace being the gun happy morons people outside the country are shown in movies, statistics and special reports on gun crime.  I realise that the media is a massive spin machine but I do wonder how much of the wild west and civil war mentality still exists in the modern American.

Thanatos

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Well, as an American, I certainly only want to own a gun so I can round up a posse and go hunt down some cattle rustlers. 

Out of curiosity, what culture do you come from exactly?  I only ask because I'd like to say a bunch of vaguely insulting things about it, but keep repeating "it's probably just bias and media spin" so nobody can be offended.

To answer your question, I'll just refer you back to the beginning of this very thread, where we learned that ever since guns were outlawed in Britain, more people are getting shot.

I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW GUNS COULD PROTECT ME FROM VIOLENCE
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Doombot

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Hey Bluecross!

Why are you viewing this thread?

*waves*
Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


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Thanatos

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I would probably modify my post to make it less ornery now that I've cooled down a bit, but Bluecross would be disappointed in me for editting.

So. 

SCREW YOU BLUECROSS
I fall and I leap and
I'm freaking out
Nowhere near my place and I
Know that they've seen me now

BlueCross

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Hey Bluecross!

Why are you viewing this thread?

*waves*

I was gonna post a link I found that said a lot of stuff about Americans and gun control but then I didn't.

*kicks*
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
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Thanatos

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Wait, who did you kick?  Yourself?  Doombot?  Recently deceased vocal great Luciano Pavarotti?  IT IS UNCLEAR AND ALSO I THINK YOU SHOULD SHOW MORE RESPECT TO DEAD TENORS
I fall and I leap and
I'm freaking out
Nowhere near my place and I
Know that they've seen me now

BlueCross

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"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

The SysMan

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I call mulligan.
That note was never alive. Ergo, it can't be called dead.
Nice try though :P
"This man seems to possess a dangerous animal cunning... The kind of cleverness to rip off your arms to crush you at chess!"

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BlueCross

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I'm pretty sure Hamilton didn't make it into the 20th Century...
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Doombot

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Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


Night Owl: Oh, indeed. I quit many a job ...better than being fired. You can keep your card... in fact, you get double points for quitting!


TK

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Well, as an American, I certainly only want to own a gun so I can round up a posse and go hunt down some cattle rustlers. 

Out of curiosity, what culture do you come from exactly?  I only ask because I'd like to say a bunch of vaguely insulting things about it, but keep repeating "it's probably just bias and media spin" so nobody can be offended.

To answer your question, I'll just refer you back to the beginning of this very thread, where we learned that ever since guns were outlawed in Britain, more people are getting shot.

I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW GUNS COULD PROTECT ME FROM VIOLENCE

How far up you're own arse is your head Than? At the beginning of the thread it was pretty much asserted that laws on gun control mean nothing when we're talking about a criminal element gaining access to them.  What I was asking about is the prevelent attitude to guns in the US, what I was asking, badly phrased I admit, is whether a gun is strictly valid as a form of defence or whether it's a perceptive thing that dictates if you don't own a gun you're exposed and vunerable. 

Instead of trying to participate in any kind of reasoned debate to enlighten the evil man insulting you country you launch into some pissy whine which sadly falls below your usual standards.  Pull your head out Than, you might find the world is a slightly different place than your self-important angry little persona paints for you and that other people tend to have a different point of view from you, if you weren't such a dick about pushing your opinion down their throat you may stand a chance at modifying thier opinion.

I do apologise for making it seem like I think Americans are all gun toting freaks looking for an excuse to shoot their neighbours but a nation with such an ingrained heritage of gun ownership is a little alien to somebody who has only had exposure to guns in very tightly controlled environments.  It takes a little bit of questioing to understand the American attitude to guns and, unfortunately, ignorance tends to expose itself.

For the record I'm Scottish, we have a very proud tradition of playing up to outdated/utterly bollocks sterotypes.

I'm interested in how much of the spiritual essence America had growing up still exists in the US or if there's been a shift to gun ownership because of fear rather than the notion of protecting yourself.