Author Topic: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)  (Read 6862 times)

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Night Owl

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Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« on: August 09, 2008, 04:54:26 AM »
The Dark Knight.... sucked. There, I said it.

I'm stunned at the press and reviews this thing gets. Has the bar dropped THAT low that this thing is "OMG, best Movie EVAH"??

Yes, Ledger was great. Just nailed it - a pleasure to watch him onscreen. But the rest... please.

1) Bale = pretty bad in this movie. And lose the raspy voice everytime you put on the mask.

2) WTF was that with Two-Face?? You introduce him, trot him around for a half hour, then he DIES?? Again, WTF was the point?

3) Easily a half hour to 45 min too long. Related to the above, you could have ended it with two face becoming.. well.. two face. That would have been fine. And had a decent setup for #3. Long movies are fine if they have an engaging plot - and this doesn't have one.

4) Related to the above (again), but how many "loved ones kidnapped and held in a warehouse" does a movie need?

5) Too many "climatic" fights. MORE STUFF in a movie does not = better (at least to us grumpy old fucks).

6) Moronic love triangle that went nowhere. I was never so pleased to see a female lead bite it.

7) Ahh... Gordon is alive... that's good. Care to explain how they kept that one quiet with all the mole cops? Another dumb plot point.

Ledger makes this movie. The rest is complete crap. Travis Bickel was way more of a Dark Knight (and yes, I know that's Batman's nickname of sorts)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 04:57:17 AM by Night Owl »

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 06:36:53 AM »
Mmmmmmm... interesting thoughts on it.

I liked it alot. I may go see it again.

I do agree about the voice.

Isssss Maeeeeeee Cooommmissssaaanor Gorrrrrrrrrr DUN!

In fact...

The Dark Knight- Joker Interrogation Scene Spoof

Also, another thing made me wonder. I don't know why Batman had to show up in China. Wasn't that just a bit suspicious?

Say... Billionaire Bruce Wayne hired us to take him to China and then later we picked up Batman... but we never picked up Bruce Wayne... or DID WE?

Of course it's more in line with a comic book feel to have Batman show up but still...
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Solwyn

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 06:41:54 AM »
I... I just.... it.... I...


You lose. Good day sir!

I disagree with a majority of this post (except about The Ledge being a perfect performance), but I will defend to the death your right to speak it.

That being said.

1) Did you see the first one? That was established already. Someone probably would have complained if he took it away after the first one, besides Bruce Wayne is pretty high profile, it'd be hard NOT to recognize his voice. What else would he do? Face/Off style throat implant? Because that was lame enough the first time.

2) I'm not positive this is the case, but I'm fairly sure that Two-face is not dead. Dent "died." I think if Batman survived the fall in the heavy armor, Two-face survived. I imagine he'll turn up in Arkham if and when they do a third movie.

3) I have to admit it was longer than I had expected, but after I realized I didn't have to pee it only made me happier. I thought the flow of the plot was incredible, it fit very closely with the flow of an arc of comics (it played very similar to Hush, great one-shot they did a few years back).

4) Did I miscount? How many times did that happen? I thought it was just the one. Are you comparing it to the first, or are you calling the chinese dude a loved one? Because I dunno about you but I didn't love him that much.

5) You are probably one of the guys who hated the battles in LOTR too. Once again I respect your opinion, and especially since you're stating a preference I'm not calling it crap, but I felt that the fights were excellently staged and choreographed. Especially since this one had a lot more "brawling" than crazy sword kata demonstrations like the first one.

6) I gotta admit, I was happy to see Rachel go away. The only cool thing about her in that whole movie was the angle that the "world's greatest detective" wasn't able to figure out she had moved on. And Alfred keeping it from him may have been cold but what other comforts does the guy have? His parents are dead.

7) I *hated* x-men III. I hated it more than Wolverine hates metal detectors or Cyclops hates burying Jean Grey (again). But one good thing is that it opened the door for movie adaptations to just go running crazy into the hills with the plots of the movies associated with comic books. I thought "well shit he's not the comissioner yet, and his daughter isn't old enough to become batgirl/oracle.... but it IS a movie so they may replace him with a black guy or something." And on the note that he would have been sniffed out by mole cops, the whole reason for him going incognito was so that the moles wouldn't know, it happens a lot in crime drama and it's pretty standard there. I don't think that's any less believable than a guy being able to hop on to a plane using a weather balloon in the middle of a crowded city.

I loved it, mainly because I felt like the "good" comic movies coming out lately, it realized it was a movie and didn't try to be a living comic book (shakes fist at Ang Lee), but it stayed true to the source material enough for it to be enjoyable.

All that being said, nice post. : )
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Night Owl

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2008, 08:11:14 AM »
Quote
besides Bruce Wayne is pretty high profile, it'd be hard NOT to recognize his voice. What else would he do? Face/Off style throat implant? Because that was lame enough the first time.

It was much worse in this one. Overdone and distracting.


Quote
I'm not positive this is the case, but I'm fairly sure that Two-face is not dead. Dent "died." I think if Batman survived the fall in the heavy armor, Two-face survived. I imagine he'll turn up in Arkham if and when they do a third movie.

That would be soooooo cheap to bring him back. At the least, let's have Gordon say "hey, where'd he go?"


Quote
4) Did I miscount? How many times did that happen? I thought it was just the one. Are you comparing it to the first, or are you calling the chinese dude a loved one? Because I dunno about you but I didn't love him that much.

Dent, annoying girl, Gordon's family. Yes, the first two were one instance, but it's still two warehouses. Chinese guy counts for one-half, as yea, he wasn't loved by anyone.


Quote
5) You are probably one of the guys who hated the battles in LOTR too. Once again I respect your opinion, and especially since you're stating a preference I'm not calling it crap, but I felt that the fights were excellently staged and choreographed. Especially since this one had a lot more "brawling" than crazy sword kata demonstrations like the first one.

I wasn't very clear - the fights I liked fine. It was the big fight in the streets followed by the big chase followed by the big jailhouse thing followed by the big boat thing followed by more hostages from two face thing - I forget, where did the hospital thing fit there... Enough with the "can you top this".

In general, I just don't like this new trend in movies as a rule - the "we have to have 10 battles, each more mind blowing and/or meaningful than the last!!!" I'm a big film buff, and I notice as time goes on, there are less and less "memorable scenes" in movies, because they feel they have to cram so many of them in there - so nothing stands out. It's annoying.

Quote
And on the note that he would have been sniffed out by mole cops, the whole reason for him going incognito was so that the moles wouldn't know,


But the moles were pretty trusted guys. There has to be a few people in the know to set this up, no? I think my big problem with this is it wasn't explained in the least - it just seemed "cheap", the way they did it. And not that I need every little detail explained, but this wasn't even a subtle setup that one could miss if they weren't paying attention (like the execution of Sonny in The Godfather) - this was just cheap.. "oh, I couldn't risk my family..."  When Gordon popped up again, my first thought was "lame." Akin to the "it was really all a dream" cop-out.

Quote
I loved it, mainly because I felt like the "good" comic movies coming out lately, it realized it was a movie and didn't try to be a living comic book (shakes fist at Ang Lee), but it stayed true to the source material enough for it to be enjoyable.


I'm not a big enough comic fan to really care about that, but I do agree comic book movies have gotten a lot better.

My opinion is really kind of skewed by the length, two face, and the "more more more" battle set pieces. It makes me pick at other stuff that may not deserve it (I mean really, the love triangle was no worse than cyclops/wolvie/jean, and I liked the x-men movies).

I just felt there was too much unnecessary "stuff". Because for the first hour, I *really* was liking it a lot. A run time of 115 minutes would do this movie serious justice.

Quote
All that being said, nice post. : )

You too.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 07:02:46 PM by Night Owl »

Chucara

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2008, 11:12:38 PM »
The problem is, if you set your expectations to match the critics, the movie will never be enjoyable. If The Dark Night was as good as everyone says it is, you'd leave the cinema with stained pants. Truth is: It's just a movie.

I went to see it with a healthy dose of scepticism, and I was pleasantly surprised. I completely agree that the movie could've ended after introducing two-face (and in fact I kinda expected it to), but then we'd be here ranting about how much it sucked becaues they're totally trying to sqeeze more money from our pockets by making yet another sequel (which they will anyway, but at least TDK has an ending).

I was thoroughly entertained when they decided to tags another half of a movie to it, and as such, I was kind glad that it just continued. The action was great (I love how they've made Batman look meaner by filming more from the villians point of view).

Bale voice was special, that's for sure. Most people would expect a squeakier voice given the generally tightness of the suit in the groinal area. Again, I didn't really mind, just laughed a little when I heard.

About your other point of criticism:

I think the warehouse hostage situation happened again because Dent wanted it to be like that. He wanted to have Gordon experience the exact same pain as he himself had gone through.

Finally, Dent is definitely dead, otherwise the director of Batman 3 (well somewhere between 3 and 12, but whatever) should be shot. In the end they all cover up his villany in the end to make sure he can "be the hero the city needs". If he was still alive, the ending just wouldn't make sense.

Yay for Depp as the Riddler in Batman 3.

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 06:19:14 PM »
Bah!
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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 11:42:53 PM »
Humbug?
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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 08:18:17 AM »
The Dark Knight.... sucked. There, I said it.


Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 03:06:06 AM »

2) I'm not positive this is the case, but I'm fairly sure that Two-face is not dead. Dent "died." I think if Batman survived the fall in the heavy armor, Two-face survived. I imagine he'll turn up in Arkham if and when they do a third movie.

'Dark Knight' Script Answers Highly Debated Question: Did Harvey 'Two-Face' Dent Live Or Die?

The script for the blockbuster sequel was made available for purchase on Tuesday and soon after found its way online. It's a long read at 167 pages, but fans looking for confirmation on the fate of Dent need only look at page 163.

"Dent lies at the bottom of the hole, his neck broken," the stage direction, written by brothers Jonathan and Christopher Nolan, reads. "DEAD." (Capital letters their emphasis, not ours.)

Although some already are arguing that because it refers to the character as "Dent" and not "Two-Face," it's possible the villain could make a return appearance, but Gotham's D.A. is always referred to as Dent throughout the script, even after his transformation.
Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


Night Owl: Oh, indeed. I quit many a job ...better than being fired. You can keep your card... in fact, you get double points for quitting!


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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2008, 07:51:50 AM »
I really liked this movie, my fiancée didn't.  My biggest problem with it was that as I walked out of the theatre, I was trying to rationalise the death of two-face with the appearance of Tommy Lee in Batman Forever.  Up until that point, nothing in either of the last two movies (Begins and TDK) directly contradicted anything from the others (other than the fact that the acting was a cut above).

I suppose I just like fidelity of continuity in my prequels.

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 01:38:16 PM »
Owl! I totally agree with you! My hubby agrees with you even more. He is a huge fan of the comic books and was expecting to see some badass character development for Batman. In the first movie, Christian Bale *carried* the film. He was really good at playing an unfocused rich guy who turns into a superhero. In this movie, Batman didn't grow any. Yeah, he is a better fighter (I guess?), but he never did any zany detective work, he wasn't witty, he wasn't even really solitary bc he kept whining about Rachel and Harvey and whatever. And UGH that stupid voice!!!

I think you hit the nail on the head with the overdone fight scenes. That's the best way I've heard anyone describe them. Yeah, it was visually cool to see his car turn into a bike, but damn, I'd have preferred some more interaction with the Joker personally, or even more scenes with Bruce. Mindless action just doesn't do it for me.

I think Heath was great and very entertaining to watch, but the rest of the movie sagged behind him. I mean, it didn't suck, it's one of the better movies that came out this summer, but I just was not impressed. I'll probably buy it so that we own the trilogy when the 3rd comes out, but it wasn't worth the $12 IMAX ticket at midnight.

Thanks for sharing your opinion! Makes me feel like I'm not crazy for not loving the crap out of it.
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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 01:12:08 AM »
All right, I’ve been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man whose gonna burn your house down – with the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 05:56:53 AM »
whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOAAAAA here. By which I mean WHOOAAAAA sir.

1. Ok you're dead on about this one. Bale is a GREAT bruce wayne but his batman makes me want to giggle, not quiver. Batman should never inspire giggling from anybody but the Joker. Dear god I wish they would dub Kevin Conroy's voice over him everytime he spoke as Batman

2. Could it have been done in another movie? Yes. Do I feel it in *any* way took away from this movie? No sir. It was well done, and it would have felt like Harvey's role ahd just tapered off considering how integral he was to the rest of the movie. By the way, dude gave a powerhouse performance. If ledger's joker wasn't so fucking amazing he would have stolen the show.

3. If the whole thing was entertaining ( and it was. It was long but I never felt as if it dragged) than there couldn't have been too much of it. The "plot" was merely to characterize the Joker as well as they could in one movie, and how he contrasts from other villains. I mean, it didn't have *less* plot than any other superhero movie (crosses fingers for watchmen movie not ruining the greatest comic masterpiece, you know, the one called the Watchmen)

4. Exactly that many.

5. More than 0, less than 6

6.....ok you got me here. The romance angle was totally forced.

7. I hadn't thought of that in particular, but frankly if it's anything like early gordon/dent teamups in the comics, they were already pretty familiar with who was and wasn't on the take. They knew the clean cops, and who they could or couldn't trust

I can't think of a single god damn super hero movie better than this one. You could argue Iron Man, because that was ungodly entertaining and Downey didn't *play* Stark, he *was* Stark, but even then that was all about the coolness of the character. The plot was atypical tripe.

Not every comic, let alone every comic movie can be the Watchmen (the book, once again). Hell, I bet the Watchmen can't even be the Watchmen. If it was, nobody would care enough to see it. America doesn't like to think enough to finance the costs of a movie.

I think TDK did a damn fine job all things considered







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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2008, 04:51:13 PM »
I hate to admit it, but after settling a bit I'm not 100% sure how I felt about this movie. I just realized I was so wrapped up in the epic feel of it and the philosophical edge to The Joker that I didn't really think critically. But to be honest, I'm glad I didn't.

I think this movie was more about what defines evil in this universe, and they did a pretty good job of making you at least understand the characters (the joker doesn't have to be redeemable like they tried to make him in the second Hush, but you at least understand what he's about other than just being crazy like in Arkham Asylum).

I stand by my earlier statement, but I'll reserve the objective judgment until I watch it again, probably at home away from the atmosphere of hysteria I got in the theater.
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Re: Holy Overrated, Batman!! (spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2008, 04:24:41 AM »
heh after reading all this i kinda feel bad that i still think its awesome.. oh well  8)