Author Topic: Just to see what gets made out of this  (Read 28092 times)

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Solwyn

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2007, 05:38:59 PM »
Here is a nice summation of what im refering to, specificly about the Roman Catholic church and their ties to the Papacy:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/italytime.html

*edits to add*

Just so you know, the three biggest groups who did this, two of which with strong ties to the Papicy, were the Roman Catholics, the Normans and the post conversion Saxons.



Thanks for the link, it's a great read. But you have to admit, some of this is just full of insinuation and paranoia. For example..
1948 — The last edition of the papal "Index liborum prohibitorum" includes Jewish publications.

Well duh. It has books from every major religion, including Catholics. It's a very long list. I agree, it's close-minded and stupid. But in a general sense, everyone is equally tarred and feathered. I don't think there's any evidence that it's specifically anti-semitic.

1937 — Pope Pius XI issues and encyclical, "With Burning Anxiety," which reflects the race-conscious myths of ‘race’ and ‘blood’ as contrary to Christian truth, but does not mention, nor directly criticize anti-semitism.

If you read that encyclical, it's incredibly general and doesn't specifically mention any race, because as a political entity the church had to be as ambiguous as possible. Besides, the next year the following happened:
 
1938- Pope Pius XI declares in an address to pilgrims, "It is not possible for Christians to take part in anti-Semitism." This statement is omitted from all Italian newspaper accounts of the address

And that's the fault of the church, and not the Italians, specifically the fascist leadership that was supposedly "in league" with the Catholic church?

My point here is that your original statement was
Quote from: Celest
Christians,(especially roman catholics), used the jew's role in the death of Jesus to persecute them for a millenia.. If not for a certain short mastached man, that wouldnt have changed either.

In your last post you said you didn't mean all Christianity, rather a few denominations. Okay, I see what you mean, especially given your examples. But you also said it was for "a millenia" (which btw I think singular it's millenium, so I'm not sure if you meant one or two thousand years), and didn't change until Hitler, but I've given evidence of multiple cases (within the last two millenia) of the church directly condemning anti-semitism or racism. That was my point about the difference between "institutional" and "personal" bigotry, in that the institution didn't openly allow any of it to happen.

It's like blaming your company if your boss sexually harrasses you. If the company does nothing about it, they're to blame. But if their policy is for it not to happen and they enforce it, the liability is on your boss, who was breaking the rules to do so. The issue in the catholic church is that since the reformation, they didn't have the authority to enforce policy except by excommunication, but that's a whole different topic altogether. The catholic church doesn't have an army any more (and rightly so).

I'm not denying anti-semitism in members of christianity. I'm also not denying that Mel Gibson is a total freaking whack job. But I'm saying there's a difference between a national acceptance of a policy and people independently practicing it. Nazi Germany had a policy of exterminating people based on their religion, and catholics were included in that group. A large portion of the Polish prisoners were Catholic. If some Nazis were nice guys who didn't practice these policies, they were against the norm. If a catholic practised it, however, they were in direct violation of the recognized rules of their oganization, which to me is the exact opposite of what we're seeing there.
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Celest

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2007, 11:10:25 PM »
Well, I didnt say that was a perfect link(nor is it the source of where my informantion is).. just that it did a decent summation of the doctern used against jews from christian sources and that it happened for quite a long time. The point of bringing up Christianity as an influince on this is that they use pretty much THE central event of the christian faith as justifications for their policy(the cruxifiction of Jesus). Also, ya, One is what I meant.. cant ever really remember how to spell that word properly.


My personal view on Hitler is that, while he wasnt 'mainstream christian' or even really beleived in the faith, that he saw that it was a tool that he could use to further his purpose... which is why he spent so long and so much effort finding the relics of the christian faith and trying to 'revise' christian history to support his ideal of one supream race above all others. So, while he might not have been a representative of the Christian Faith, he did try to use it as a tool to justify and unify the german people with his 'goals'.

Solwyn

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2007, 06:43:05 PM »
Okay I see what you're saying. My only point was really that it's hypocritical the way a lot of people (and I'm not including you in this, some of your sources maybe but not you) use Christians as a scapegoat for using other peoples as a scapegoat.

Not only because it's generalized (as all scapegoat tactics are) but because of the fact that it's based on the assumption of a lot of basic tenets of faith that differ greatly in the however many denominations of each faith that there are.

When a religion is around for a couple thousand years people start revising the history to fit their agenda. I mean this happens with religions not even a hundred years old (read: Scientology) but the more lost the origin is the easier it is to claim "well Christians don't know this but Jesus was gay. Says so in this book I read, that a guy wrote... once."
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BlueCross

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2007, 06:47:35 PM »
Jesus was gay?

Dang...
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Brugdor

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2007, 06:57:02 PM »
Okay I see what you're saying. My only point was really that it's hypocritical the way a lot of people (and I'm not including you in this, some of your sources maybe but not you) use Christians as a scapegoat for using other peoples as a scapegoat.

Not only because it's generalized (as all scapegoat tactics are) but because of the fact that it's based on the assumption of a lot of basic tenets of faith that differ greatly in the however many denominations of each faith that there are.

When a religion is around for a couple thousand years people start revising the history to fit their agenda. I mean this happens with religions not even a hundred years old (read: Scientology) but the more lost the origin is the easier it is to claim "well Christians don't know this but Jesus was gay. Says so in this book I read, that a guy wrote... once."

Yes but then gays (at least the American version) always seem to want to claim everyone famous as one of their own.

"You know how I knew Tom Cruise had gone completely over the edge crazy? Because the gays don't want him anymore." - Kathy Griffin
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Solwyn

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2007, 08:18:47 PM »
My mom claims everyone of any notoriety is gay. Including
Jimi Hendrix
Jesus (yeah she actually said that)
The Entire Male Cast of Dallas
John Elway

In my opinion she mixed John Elway and Troy Aikman up. But the rest are just bunk.
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BlueCross

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2007, 08:33:12 PM »
John and Troy hooked up?

You learn lots of cool info in this forum.
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Solwyn

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2007, 10:59:01 PM »
Their adopted children would grow hooves.

Dallas and Denver can only produce evil when paired. Go to a Stars/Avs game and you'll see what I mean. I came home with enough teeth to make a necklace.
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Larspeart

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2007, 10:23:52 PM »
I don't know that I ever said the US was a christian nation. I know I said that it was founded by mostly christians which of course influenced the foundation of our government and the way it works.

I thought they were Illuminati members. The secret society that nobody knows about.



And Nicolas Cage should know.

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No.  That's the Freemasons.  Not that I know 'anything' about them...   ;)

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BlueCross

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2007, 10:29:47 PM »

And Nicolas Cage should know.

*nods*


No.  That's the Freemasons.  Not that I know 'anything' about them...   ;)



I'm sorry but if I say that Nicolas Cage is a Minion of the Illuminati, then Nicolas Cage IS a Minion of the Illuminati.

End of argument.

Your welcome.

"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Doombot

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2007, 11:21:31 PM »
I suspect certain cartoon characters of being gay.

Snagglepuss
Pink Panther
Velma from Scooby Doo
Marcie and Peppermint Patty (Whatever you say... sir.)
Maybe Bugs Bunny but I think he just did it for kicks.
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BlueCross

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2007, 11:25:07 PM »
I suspect certain cartoon characters of being gay.

Maybe Bugs Bunny but I think he just did it for kicks.

Yup.

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2005/02/05/cartoon_characters/index.html

"I was in constant fear of being found out," says Popeye, sipping herbal tea.
"for the record, I'm not some kind of psychotic provincialist." - Than (ed: Cit. required)
"I lost my game of NT: Garry's fault. Global warming: Garry's fault. End-of-the-Universe: Garry's fault. See it always fits. Anyway, what is Garry up to? No good I bet." - Laszlo
"As for your French, it's probably better than the average English-speaking Frenchman's Finnish! (Or something.)" - wa
"I'm back at Thunderfalls now and every minute thinking of poking a bandit in the eye with a fishhook." - Preyveil
"and yet still nothing has made it to BC's signature!"-KMD

Larspeart

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2007, 01:35:27 AM »

And Nicolas Cage should know.

*nods*


No.  That's the Freemasons.  Not that I know 'anything' about them...   ;)



I'm sorry but if I say that Nicolas Cage is a Minion of the Illuminati, then Nicolas Cage IS a Minion of the Illuminati.

End of argument.

Your welcome.




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The SysMan

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Re: Just to see what gets made out of this
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2007, 10:47:28 PM »
Your welcome.

Yes.
My Welcome.
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