Author Topic: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?  (Read 18292 times)

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Brugdor

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 09:08:03 PM »
Also, thanks for proving my point that science doesnt hold onto things that can be disproven.

Which proves my point that there's no reason to take scientific theories as gospel. So why is it that anyone that doubts what science says about the age of the world is treated like they are by the people that believe it?

I know the LHC didn't have to be approved by Bush in any way. My point was that a supposed "fundie" was at the helm and the earth didn't stop rotating on its axis or even start to move backwards. Things continued on as they would have if anyone else was in the White House.
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Brugdor

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2008, 10:27:59 PM »
Back on subject

What's worse, not knowing what the "Bush Doctrine" is or THIS?

So there goes that argument against her (unless of course one is willing to admit the same about Biden).
"When planning a new picture we don't think of grown ups and we don't think of children but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us that maybe the world has made us forget and that maybe our pictures can help recall." - Walt Disney

Chucara

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2008, 10:44:00 PM »
Ok, one thing first that makes me irk as a scientistish person:

A scientific theory isn't as some people seem to think the same as a "guess".

A hypothesis is an idea that has been created by research and observations.

A theory is a model that explains all current observations, and can possibly be used to predict future ones. Generally speaking, many have abandoned the word "Law" in favor of theory as one of the cornerstones of science is to allow conflicting evidence to disprove your theory. In this way - gravity is also a theory.

The following two pictures sum up my feelings are religion/faith as science quite well:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa74/harrowlawl/sciencevsreligion.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/232/religionkv0.png

Like I said earlier, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having faith, but it's very hard to persuade others to believe something that you can't prove or even make plausible. Doing so requires a spiritual experience that man can give (except Chuck Norris).

I know Palin's strong belief is am advantage in America, but I wouldn't even consider anyone with as outspoken beliefs as her. Faith is a person matter, and should not be mixed with government. While comparing to much of the Arab world is taking it to extremes, it is an example of a society where religion takes precedence over logic and true justice.

Nighthavok

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 12:23:48 AM »
Bottom line.  If you profess to be Christian or a Christian, supporting any man made government in any way other than simply recognizing the ruling authority, goes against what you pray for in "The Lord's Prayer." 

And that's a fact.

Thanatos

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 12:41:55 AM »
Bottom line.  If you profess to be Christian or a Christian, supporting any man made government in any way other than simply recognizing the ruling authority, goes against what you pray for in "The Lord's Prayer." 

And that's a fact.

You're an idiot.
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Solwyn

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2008, 12:47:20 AM »
My personal belief is that faith is like a preference. You like to have faith like you like mint chocolate chip ice cream.

If you're someone like me, you go through periods where you think "I'm sick of mint chocolate chip ice cream," but in a few years, you think "damn, I really need some mint chocolate chip ice cream right about now."

I don't need science to prove that mint chocolate chip ice cream is delicious. Sure you can analyze the structure of the ice cream, the function of your taste buds paired with the neurological and psychological triggers that make me feel better when eating it, but none of that is going to keep me from liking mint chocolate chip ice cream.

To me, faith is the space that exists between what you know and what you believe. And that's good enough for me.

Damn I need some ice cream.
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Nighthavok

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2008, 02:46:22 AM »
Bottom line.  If you profess to be Christian or a Christian, supporting any man made government in any way other than simply recognizing the ruling authority, goes against what you pray for in "The Lord's Prayer." 

And that's a fact.

You're an idiot.

I didn't mean to shatter your reality.  :blank:



Brugdor

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2008, 04:38:52 AM »
I know Palin's strong belief is am advantage in America, but I wouldn't even consider anyone with as outspoken beliefs as her. Faith is a person matter, and should not be mixed with government. While comparing to much of the Arab world is taking it to extremes, it is an example of a society where religion takes precedence over logic and true justice.

But once again I'm forced to ask, where's the evidence that she is mixing her faith with government?

Also, I understand the terminology of science. I just don't accept that that's how people are using those terms. People teach theories as truths and don't point out that they can and should be questioned. Then they get all bent out of shape when you actually do question them. This seems to be the prevalent attitude with many who discuss these issues. Look at Al Gore and his, "the debate is over" on Global Warming. No it's not you friggin crook hack politician! If it's science then it's ALWAYS up for debate according to the rules the scientists made about such things. Another example would be any show about nature or the earth. Every one of them talks about how this or that took place millions of years ago. They don't say, "And it's thought that this happened..." or "The evidence suggests that...". NO! They say, "Millions of years ago this took place" or "This dinosaur fed on these things". Those are assumptions and nothing more.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 04:54:39 AM by Brugdor »
"When planning a new picture we don't think of grown ups and we don't think of children but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us that maybe the world has made us forget and that maybe our pictures can help recall." - Walt Disney

Nighthavok

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2008, 05:33:13 AM »
I know Palin's strong belief is am advantage in America, but I wouldn't even consider anyone with as outspoken beliefs as her. Faith is a person matter, and should not be mixed with government. While comparing to much of the Arab world is taking it to extremes, it is an example of a society where religion takes precedence over logic and true justice.

But once again I'm forced to ask, where's the evidence that she is mixing her faith with government?

Where's the evidence that she even has a stand on anything?  Are we to assume that her policies are the same as McCain?


Chucara

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2008, 05:23:37 PM »
Also, I understand the terminology of science. I just don't accept that that's how people are using those terms. People teach theories as truths and don't point out that they can and should be questioned. Then they get all bent out of shape when you actually do question them. This seems to be the prevalent attitude with many who discuss these issues. Look at Al Gore and his, "the debate is over" on Global Warming. No it's not you friggin crook hack politician! If it's science then it's ALWAYS up for debate according to the rules the scientists made about such things. Another example would be any show about nature or the earth. Every one of them talks about how this or that took place millions of years ago. They don't say, "And it's thought that this happened..." or "The evidence suggests that...". NO! They say, "Millions of years ago this took place" or "This dinosaur fed on these things". Those are assumptions and nothing more.

Al Gore isn't a scientist. The "facts" he presents are not much better than the "facts" some of the more extreme creationists provide (grand canyon was made by the Great Flood, the shape of a banana disproves evolution).

But it's completely fair to say "millions of years ago" because no other plausible theory exists that explains the creation of the universe, carbon dating, etc. Otherwise we'd also have to say that "the ball fell to the ground because the evidence suggests that two masses attract eachother. After all, gravity is only a theory, and could potentially be disproven.

There are simply too many things that point to evolution and other things that certain religions seems to think conflict with their beliefs. I can't help but think that evolution has many parallels to when people started questioning whether the earth is really flat. Yet today, there aren't many people that have doubts about that.

Basically it boils down to:

This thousand-year old book says this is what happened. Oh, and the dinosaur fossils were placed by God for some illogical reason.
- or -
An overwhelming amount of verifiable evidence that strongly point towards the process of natural selection. Sure, the model may not be complete, and it may even be disproven in the future, but faced with no alternative that can be explained scientifically, this is what we have to work with so far.

Note that I don't think that evolution excludes faith in God. Why is it not possible that God had the foresight to also create natural selection? Again this boils down to how literally you want to take the Bible - and I frankly can't see how it is possible to do so without knowing that *ahem* certain places could use a revision (references to slavery, the "pillars of the earth", "corners of the earth" etc.).

Solwyn

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2008, 03:42:16 PM »
Why is it not possible that God had the foresight to also create natural selection?

Given the direction that "creative evolution" and now "intelligent design" have gone, I'm willing to believe that something similar to what you explain is next.
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Brugdor

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2008, 08:06:45 PM »
Why is it not possible that God had the foresight to also create natural selection?

Who is saying He didn't? Natural selection isn't the same thing that we're arguing about as there's no particular time line that's needed for it to exist. I'm talking specifically about the scientific belief that the earth and creation started millions of years ago.
"When planning a new picture we don't think of grown ups and we don't think of children but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us that maybe the world has made us forget and that maybe our pictures can help recall." - Walt Disney

Chucara

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2008, 09:20:33 PM »
Who is saying He didn't? Natural selection isn't the same thing that we're arguing about as there's no particular time line that's needed for it to exist. I'm talking specifically about the scientific belief that the earth and creation started millions of years ago.
Well, in believing that the Earth was created thousands of years ago instead of millions, you're discarding carbon dating and indirectly evolution. No sane scientist believes that we could evolve from amoebas to mammals in a few thousand years. That basically pulls the carpet away under evolution.

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Re: That Palin chick.. Isn't she worse than Bush?
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 01:57:08 AM »
"CBS News Exclusive:" Katie Couric speaks with GOP vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin about the nation's economic concerns and the McCain campaign's ties to lobbyists.

I hear words... but I don't understand what she's talking about.

I feel like I'm listening to Paul Winfield in Darmok from Star Trek the Next Generation.



McCain! His ways Maverick!

Obama! He waits for winds!

America! Their support for McCain unfurled!
Will I get Night Owl points for quitting but not as much for getting fired?
Will I still be a member of the Owl's Pals? I'd hate to turn in my card. It's got a real owl feather under the lamination and everything.


Night Owl: Oh, indeed. I quit many a job ...better than being fired. You can keep your card... in fact, you get double points for quitting!